GLOBAL WARMING BILL

[sbenn]

I received this info and wanted to share it with you all! As well as signing the petition I believe we should contact our congressmen individually about this also.


From the Desk of:
Steve Elliott, President, Grassfire.org Alliance

4/16/2008

You and I are about to get hit with a $1.2 trillion tax
increase all in the name of Al Gore’s radical Climate
Alarmist agenda.

Hundreds of millions of dollars are being pushed into this
massive effort to create the largest expansion of government
power in our nation’s history. This new legislation --
called Lieberman-Warner -- is expected to be voted on
in the next 60 days.

Today, Grassfire is launching a National Petition opposing
this new Al Gore/Carbon Tax Scheme and the Climate
Alarmist agenda. Please go here to sign:

www.grassfire.org/106/petition.asp?

If you need more information on the Climate Alarmist agenda,
please go here:

www.grassfire.net/r.asp?U=6048&RID=16094473

Please do not misunderstand what I'm saying.
I fully support the very "conservative" concept of being good
stewards of the earth. But I cannot sit by silently as Al Gore
and the Climate Alarmists push a massive taxing scheme on us
that will have little or no real effect on the alleged problem
of rising CO2 emissions.

Especially when there is a growing body of scientific evidence
that brings the Al Gore theory into question. In fact, it is
becoming clear that the entire Al Gore Climate Alarmism is
nothing more than a Hoax!

Why?

Because even if Al Gore's catastrophic predictions were true,
all the so-called "solutions" of the Climate Alarmists wouldn't
even put a dent in the "problem" of rising CO2 levels!

+ + Just 60 days to stop this new, oppressive tax

I just took part in an important strategy meeting on Capitol
Hill with key leaders who are working to stop this new tax
scheme. The problem is, the Climate Alarmists are pumping
hundreds of millions of dollars into their crusade and they
have just about every political and Hollywood elite on
their side.

And now the President is caving in!

You and I are the final barrier to Al Gore's massive, oppressive
tax scheme. Please sign the petition today, and thanks so much
for the stand you are taking.

Steve Elliott, President
Grassfire.org

P.S. Again, if you need more information on why Climate Alarmism
is a hoax, see our resources page. Thousands of scientists are
now questioning Al Gore’s thesis that humans are dooming the
planet. See for yourself:

www.grassfire.net/r.asp?U=6049&RID=16094473

P.P.S. I would very much like to get feedback from you on this issue.
Go here to access a special forum for our team members on this update:

www.grassfire.net/r.asp?U=6050&RID=16094473

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
To contact Grassfire.org with comments, questions or to change
your status, see link at the end.)
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

+ + Feedback or comments on this update?

Go to FireSociety.com and post your comments so that the Grassfire
staff along with thousands of citizens can benefit from your
thoughts and opinions:

www.grassfire.net/r.asp?U=6051&RID=16094473

[gwtwins]

I just signed this one

Being somewhat of an amateur scientists as I stated in a previous post, can somebody here answer the following question for me so that I can better understand why humans are responsible for global warming:

When the the Ice Age ended 10,000 years ago and the glaciers receded leaving this huge thing called Lake Ontario by my house, exactly which humans were responsible for the warming back then??

[brianb]

Apr 17, 2008 10:21:07 GMT -5 gwtwins said:

When the the Ice Age ended 10,000 years ago and the glaciers receded leaving this huge thing called Lake Ontario by my house, exactly which humans were responsible for the warming back then??

The Atlanteans. Their reckless use of technology cause huge green house gas emissions which caused catastrophic even cataclysmic instability in the atmosphere. Causing their island to be swallowed by the the fault in the Atlantic sea bed. This in turn caused crazy temperature fluctuations in the oceans....oh wait..that caused the last ice age...hmmm....

mouse farts caused the global warming that ended the last ice age. Cuz you know it wasn't the penguins or the polar bears melting the ice caps...I mean they went to the UN to solve that problem just recently, surely they did the same during the last ice age...but rats and mice...now those unscrupulous fellows....

oh wait you said humans?

Well let me see if I can get my government/supreme court justice/scientist hat right....If a power plant or an automobile emits CO2 it's a pollutant, but if I and the other 6 1/2 billion humans on the planet emit CO2, as we do with every breath, it's...what? Sorry, my tinfoil hat is slipping down over my eyes here..but if CO2 is a pollutant then the only way to truly reduce CO2 is to get rid of more than half the population of the planet, and that's not just the human population considering that every living animal respires O2 into CO2.

[dieseldog06]

As much as I have no respect for the UN or anything about it, maybe just for once they may be correct in their latest reports on Biofuel production and it's effect on Gorebal Warming. The Commiseriat in the UN have declared ethanol production as a "crime against humanity" for causing world wide food shortages. Yes, that is the same UN who not long ago proclaimed the need for the world to engage in combating Gorebal Warming

www.greatdreams.com/coleman.html

I have read several reports that state that to clear massive amounts of land to grow biofuel crops, as they have done in Indonesia to grow Palm's for Palm Oil, are much more harmful and devastating to the atmosphere. Forests absorb CO2- when you clear the land you take that ability away. When you grow corn, it literally strips the land of any nutrients, therefore tons of pounds of fertilizer must be added to the soil in order for it to grow anything on it again. Yes, I guess Iowa does think it should be first in the primaries as some of the biggest government subsidized farms are now growing corn for ethanol. Funny that McCain seemed at one time to be against ethanol production, but once he set foot in Iowa, his tune drastically changed

With the passage of the energy bill, ethanol usage was mandated. Now, even though it is being widely reported that ethanol production is more harmful than good, our current Pres. and Congress once again will refuse to correct their own mistakes. Then again Pres. Bush is on the Committee of 300- so he has ultieror motives, and they are not in the best interest of the US

[brianb]

Ok, discounting the ensuing food shortage due to biofuels, and discounting CO2 uptake by forests(really not all that much compared to the amount of CO2 uptake by the algea in the oceans) but they do some exchange...but all plants perform the same function, so I'll give that a wash..

The thing about biofuels is that they generate more CO2 to produce, they generate more CO2 to transport to market, they generate more CO2 to use due to the fact that they have an overall lower heating value than petroleum based fuels.

Biofuels originally weren't developed as a means of CO2 reduction, but as an energy policy solution to lessen a country's dependence on foreign crude. The ecoterrorists jumped on the biofuels bandwagon early on as a way to attack "Big Oil". Problem is that to match the US's oil consumption there isn't enough aerable land in the world to grow the corn required to convert to ehtanol.

[brianb]

[maniacal laughter]MWAHAHAHAHAH!!!! MMMWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!![/maniacal laughter]

corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjllZjJhMTVjZTZmZjE5N2VmNzExNmM3OWMxZDllZWY=

This just gets better everyday.

And this also illustrates the point that I was trying to make in the discussion on McCain-Feingold. Bad law(mandates) passed with good intentions = Unintended Consequences. Because of all these government mandated and government subsidized biofuels the poorest people on the planet can't afford to eat. But, always remember...the left is for the poor

[sbenn]

Here is another article about Al Gore making money off Global warming. To him it is an investment...not a way to save the earth.

newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/04/11/gore-admits-financial-reasons-advancing-global-warming-hysteria

[creationist]

Apr 17, 2008 10:53:04 GMT -5 @brianb said:

Apr 17, 2008 10:21:07 GMT -5 gwtwins said:

When the the Ice Age ended 10,000 years ago and the glaciers receded leaving this huge thing called Lake Ontario by my house, exactly which humans were responsible for the warming back then??

The Atlanteans. Their reckless use of technology cause huge green house gas emissions which caused catastrophic even cataclysmic instability in the atmosphere. Causing their island to be swallowed by the the fault in the Atlantic sea bed. This in turn caused crazy temperature fluctuations in the oceans....oh wait..that caused the last ice age...hmmm....

mouse farts caused the global warming that ended the last ice age. Cuz you know it wasn't the penguins or the polar bears melting the ice caps...I mean they went to the UN to solve that problem just recently, surely they did the same during the last ice age...but rats and mice...now those unscrupulous fellows....

oh wait you said humans?

Well let me see if I can get my government/supreme court justice/scientist hat right....If a power plant or an automobile emits CO2 it's a pollutant, but if I and the other 6 1/2 billion humans on the planet emit CO2, as we do with every breath, it's...what? Sorry, my tinfoil hat is slipping down over my eyes here..but if CO2 is a pollutant then the only way to truly reduce CO2 is to get rid of more than half the population of the planet, and that's not just the human population considering that every living animal respires O2 into CO2.

Tell me this: how much worse are car fumes and industrial waste for the environment than human exhalation? I know the earth is robust and eventually is automatically restored (through God's ingenious system), but what damages us humans, and for how long? Is the environmental hype really just hype, or is some of it valid?

BTW, there's another excuse for abortion: "Less CO2 released!" The worst excuse, and most appalling, I ever heard for abortion was "more people will go to heaven if there are more abortions" -I don't know what to say to something like that !

[creationist]

Apr 17, 2008 11:14:37 GMT -5 @dieseldog06 said:

As much as I have no respect for the UN or anything about it, maybe just for once they may be correct in their latest reports on Biofuel production and it's effect on Gorebal Warming. The Commiseriat in the UN have declared ethanol production as a "crime against humanity" for causing world wide food shortages. Yes, that is the same UN who not long ago proclaimed the need for the world to engage in combating Gorebal Warming

www.greatdreams.com/coleman.html

I have read several reports that state that to clear massive amounts of land to grow biofuel crops, as they have done in Indonesia to grow Palm's for Palm Oil, are much more harmful and devastating to the atmosphere. Forests absorb CO2- when you clear the land you take that ability away. When you grow corn, it literally strips the land of any nutrients, therefore tons of pounds of fertilizer must be added to the soil in order for it to grow anything on it again. Yes, I guess Iowa does think it should be first in the primaries as some of the biggest government subsidized farms are now growing corn for ethanol. Funny that McCain seemed at one time to be against ethanol production, but once he set foot in Iowa, his tune drastically changed

With the passage of the energy bill, ethanol usage was mandated. Now, even though it is being widely reported that ethanol production is more harmful than good, our current Pres. and Congress once again will refuse to correct their own mistakes. Then again Pres. Bush is on the Committee of 300- so he has ultieror motives, and they are not in the best interest of the US

It's really not about combatting a problem then, even to those convinced of global warming. Grow corn for an alternative fuel source, and if it means people don't get to eat that corn, that's okay, and so be it. Utter selfishness.

[brianb]

Apr 17, 2008 12:56:53 GMT -5 creationist said:

Tell me this: how much worse are car fumes and industrial waste for the environment than human exhalation? I know the earth is robust and eventually is automatically restored (through God's ingenious system), but what damages us humans, and for how long? Is the environmental hype really just hype, or is some of it valid?

BTW, there's another excuse for abortion: "Less CO2 released!" The worst excuse, and most appalling, I ever heard for abortion was "more people will go to heaven if there are more abortions" -I don't know what to say to something like that !

Poison is poison not matter what form it is. Too high a concentration of O2 in an atmosphere is just as deadly to you as too little. Too much pure water in your system is just as deadly as Cyanide, the means by which you die is just a little different.

The devil is in the details. Sure toxic and hazardous materials are labeled that way for a reason. They are bad for you.

It's all a matter of concentrations. Some things are bad for you in very small amounts and some things are only bad for you in very large amounts. Somethings accumulate in the body for long periods of years and become bad for you (CO2 isn't one of those since you breathe it out with every breath).

www.climate-skeptic.com/2007/09/chapter-1-summa.html

[dieseldog06]

BrianB- I would like to respond to your argument that you discount deforestation as the oceans algae absorb the CO2 that the forrest would otherwise do.

www.sciencenews.org/pages/pdfs/data/1995/148-04/14804-07.pdf

I believe that you are correct that the energy policy was mandated for the purpose of "energy independence", however it has had unintended consequences- yup your are correct. My original post, and my very firm belief is that "food shortages" have been the consequence. You say that you discount the problem with food shortages in one post and then make it your feature in your next post.

This is all semantics, I know we really are on the same page. IMHO you are getting into the bowels of a serious problem with details which result in none other than food shortages. I don't discount the food shortages and the poor, I personally don't care about the details!

[rayman]

I haven't heard about those nasty holes in the ozone layer in a while. Maybe Gore's global warming made the ozone melt and fuse back together. I hope to live another 10 years to hear what the next "oh my god" scare the masses is gonna be.

[brianb]

When I said discounting...What I was simply trying to say is that even if you don't consider the impact that it is having on the availability and/or pricing of the global food supply. What I was trying to illustrate in that post is the simple fact that even from a pure CO2 reduction standpoint biofuels would be a miserable failure.

Now, when you couple the fact that biofuels actually create more CO2 to produce, transport and use than their hydrocarbon counterparts with the impact that biofuels production is having on the global food supply, well now you got something bordering on the catastrophic.

I discounted that deforestation has a negative impact on CO2 uptake when the deforestation is being done to replant it with crops, not that the ocean's algae would be able to handle it. All green plants do the same thing..take up CO2 which gets used by the chlorophyll with light from the sun to process it's nutrients to grow and live...a by-product of that reaction is the release of O2. Therefore, clear-cutting of rain forests for the sake of planting something that is going to take up the same space and do the same thing as far as the CO2 in the atmosphere is concerned is a wash in my opinion.

The entire Global Warming Farce has nothing to do with climate and everything to do with control. Keep the third world countries poor, and if a majority of their populations die as a result of it the better. Just fewer "eaters" to have to take care of in the long run. It is also about limiting or eliminating the long term economic viability of the industrialized nations and/or burden them so heavily for their "emissions" that they will fundamentally become no better than 3rd world countries. To what end? reduction of total global population to what the "thinkers" believe to be a "sustainable" population and to control it.

I think that the injustices that are being and have been perpetrated against the 3rd world countries by the ECO-TERRORISTS are crimes against humanity far greater than anything ever done by the Third Reich. DDT would have solved the malaria problems in South America and Africa. But, no..can't use DDT. It's a possible carcinogen.

Anyway...there isn't a shred of truth to the entire hoax...I am not a skeptic....I am a DENIER!!! and I will deny that man has any impact on global (I said global not local) climate until the day I die.

After a little reflection this evening, I do not believe these consequences are unintended, at least not by the braintrust that came up with the entire global warming farce. The reason I said "Bad laws passed with good intentions have unintended consequences" is that I think that the majority of the ladies and gents in the Parliament believed that they were doing a good thing by mandating biofuels not that they had any malicious intent.

[dieseldog06]

BrianB- I think we all agree that the whole Gorebal Warming thing is a HOAX. I have been saying that I could not understand why so many countries bought into it. I believe at first, if any scientist came forth with doubts or even outright facts to back up their opinions, they were ostrasized. For awhile now there have been more and more reputable scientists coming forth with their facts to say it is not so. I read somewhere that these scientists did a petition for other nonbelievers to sign on to (there were alot of signatures, I don't remember how many). Now, even the UN is backtracking on their original claims of it's consequences. There have been many reports that have claimed that biofuels are more harmful to the atmosphere. As you stated, to grow, produce and transport ethanol is more expensive than fossil fuels. It will only drive the cost of fuels up and up.

You had said that the ladies and gents of the parliament probably didn't know of the unintended consequences when they passed the energy bill- I say that while it was never proven to be a cost effective alternative, they were either dumb or complicit to sign on to the legislation. I don't give them that much credit-I say they were knowingly evil

[harleyst96]

I had read somewhere a few weeks back that John Coleman (the meteorologist who founded The Weather Channel) wanted to file a lawsuit against Al Gore and others about the Gorebal Warming Hoax because he felt that the only way to get the evidence to the contrary out and stop the hoax in it's tracks was through a trial where all the evidence could be presented - he knows that something like this would hit the world stage. I hope that he does - I'm so proud of him!